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	<title>Comments on: Thoughts on Scrum</title>
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	<link>http://www.dadhacker.com/blog/?p=1037</link>
	<description>Instant wisdom about any random thing I feel like.</description>
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		<title>By: Frank</title>
		<link>http://www.dadhacker.com/blog/?p=1037&#038;cpage=1#comment-49886</link>
		<dc:creator>Frank</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jun 2009 10:28:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dadhacker.com/blog/?p=1037#comment-49886</guid>
		<description>Scrum is Anarcho-Syndicalism in action. 

Might work if you have a factory in place, and factory staff that have more cognitive ability than an assembly line automaton, but isn&#039;t too good at entrepreneurial factory creation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Scrum is Anarcho-Syndicalism in action. </p>
<p>Might work if you have a factory in place, and factory staff that have more cognitive ability than an assembly line automaton, but isn&#8217;t too good at entrepreneurial factory creation.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://www.dadhacker.com/blog/?p=1037&#038;cpage=1#comment-40164</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Mar 2009 16:50:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dadhacker.com/blog/?p=1037#comment-40164</guid>
		<description>DadHacker&#039;s thoughts on scrum are right on target.  I&#039;ve been on a couple of scrum teams at my current job.  Some of them worked pretty well.  But I wouldn&#039;t say that they worked well because of Scrum, they worked because we had some really, really good developers  (and no, I&#039;m not putting myself in that class).  The reason Scrum worked on the teams I was on was that each had an &quot;alpha wolf&quot; developer who was pretty happy to set the agenda for 2 weeks. 

Theoretically, Scrum is supposed to be this lightweight management process that frees up developers to get work done.  Well, reporting status every day, estimating the next two weeks in 2-4 hour increments, and planning out what the next couple of months will cover for backlog items is FAR more managment heavy than anything I&#039;ve ever done before.

I&#039;ve heard that if you are doing standup as a status meeting, you are doing it wrong.  But telling people what you have done, what you are doing, and whether you are held up is exactly what I would do in status meeting.  Or to put it another way, what would be different about a status meeting?  If the answer is that status meetings involve management, then I&#039;d say you don&#039;t understand status meetings.  

The thing that really bugs me about the daily standup is that it&#039;s redundant, because I DO talk to people as necessary.  If I make a change that I think will impact the team, I mail everyone.  Muttering about it at standup is rarely productive. 

And, for all the people who say &quot;if Scrum doesn&#039;t work, you aren&#039;t doing it right&quot;, that&#039;s got to be the most circular argument in existence.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>DadHacker&#8217;s thoughts on scrum are right on target.  I&#8217;ve been on a couple of scrum teams at my current job.  Some of them worked pretty well.  But I wouldn&#8217;t say that they worked well because of Scrum, they worked because we had some really, really good developers  (and no, I&#8217;m not putting myself in that class).  The reason Scrum worked on the teams I was on was that each had an &#8220;alpha wolf&#8221; developer who was pretty happy to set the agenda for 2 weeks. </p>
<p>Theoretically, Scrum is supposed to be this lightweight management process that frees up developers to get work done.  Well, reporting status every day, estimating the next two weeks in 2-4 hour increments, and planning out what the next couple of months will cover for backlog items is FAR more managment heavy than anything I&#8217;ve ever done before.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve heard that if you are doing standup as a status meeting, you are doing it wrong.  But telling people what you have done, what you are doing, and whether you are held up is exactly what I would do in status meeting.  Or to put it another way, what would be different about a status meeting?  If the answer is that status meetings involve management, then I&#8217;d say you don&#8217;t understand status meetings.  </p>
<p>The thing that really bugs me about the daily standup is that it&#8217;s redundant, because I DO talk to people as necessary.  If I make a change that I think will impact the team, I mail everyone.  Muttering about it at standup is rarely productive. </p>
<p>And, for all the people who say &#8220;if Scrum doesn&#8217;t work, you aren&#8217;t doing it right&#8221;, that&#8217;s got to be the most circular argument in existence.</p>
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		<title>By: Cir</title>
		<link>http://www.dadhacker.com/blog/?p=1037&#038;cpage=1#comment-23149</link>
		<dc:creator>Cir</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Aug 2008 12:35:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dadhacker.com/blog/?p=1037#comment-23149</guid>
		<description>This is kinda familiar to me, too. The Scrums weren&#039;t daily affairs though, but occurred once or twice a week (except on some pretty hard crunches, when they were indeed daily annoyance).

Just &quot;fooling around&quot; (ie. doing stuff that doesn&#039;t _seem_ to have much to relate with the work at hand) until my subconsciousness works the problems out is also my modus operandi. Alas, it can be quite incompatible with the management types. In this particular job (the one with the Scrums) the managers actually wanted to sack me after about six months, until they mentioned this to my team leader, who informed them, that I was in fact their &quot;best&quot; developer (not necessarily the most productive, but the one with the most compact code (important in coding mobile software in early 2000s) with the least bugs). The managers were apparently quite astonished by this :P

Left the place after a year. The managers were so obsessed with nitpicking and unnecessary details, that for coders it wasn&#039;t a particularly nice job (in fact, about half of the coding team left within half a year). The company folded a couple years later.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is kinda familiar to me, too. The Scrums weren&#8217;t daily affairs though, but occurred once or twice a week (except on some pretty hard crunches, when they were indeed daily annoyance).</p>
<p>Just &#8220;fooling around&#8221; (ie. doing stuff that doesn&#8217;t _seem_ to have much to relate with the work at hand) until my subconsciousness works the problems out is also my modus operandi. Alas, it can be quite incompatible with the management types. In this particular job (the one with the Scrums) the managers actually wanted to sack me after about six months, until they mentioned this to my team leader, who informed them, that I was in fact their &#8220;best&#8221; developer (not necessarily the most productive, but the one with the most compact code (important in coding mobile software in early 2000s) with the least bugs). The managers were apparently quite astonished by this :P</p>
<p>Left the place after a year. The managers were so obsessed with nitpicking and unnecessary details, that for coders it wasn&#8217;t a particularly nice job (in fact, about half of the coding team left within half a year). The company folded a couple years later.</p>
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		<title>By: Oisín</title>
		<link>http://www.dadhacker.com/blog/?p=1037&#038;cpage=1#comment-22742</link>
		<dc:creator>Oisín</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Aug 2008 20:47:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dadhacker.com/blog/?p=1037#comment-22742</guid>
		<description>While I haven&#039;t done Scrum, in a previous job we used some XP concepts - especially test-driven design, XP-style planning and pair programming (although they stopped that soon after us interns finished our 6-month stint almost simultaneously and left a coder-vacuum).

One of the best parts of XP to me was that our planning and scheduling was a process which adapted to us as much as we adapted to it. By roughly measuring and learning from the discrepancies between our estimations (ideal hours) and actual time spent on tasks (actual hours) we not only got better at estimating (i.e. guessing), even with quite exploratory code, but perhaps more importantly our weekly Big Visible Charts were a realistic description of how much we were managing to get done.
We didn&#039;t allow them to be turned against us (to demand or bully us into promising more output or work) - instead, we used last week&#039;s chart and ideal hours count (which did get closer to our 40-hour week as time went by) to plan the next week, cutting back on tasks as need be so we&#039;re only taking on the same expected workload as we accomplished last week. Also, some of our other graphs were able to make it apparent when our schedule slipped due to late requirements changes from client/boss.

So, really it&#039;s about planning through honesty and openness. If we got shag all work done this week, then it&#039;d be unrealistic to expect double the output next week. Sure, if we&#039;re really falling behind it might be brought up at the daily stand-up meetings, but that was never an issue. Pair programming helped keep a decent level of output too - if one guy is tired or needs to space out, his partner takes the keys for a while and vice versa.
Also, at those meetings I had no trouble saying things like &quot;we didn&#039;t get much done yesterday because I got confused by some mystery slowdowns so we played around with the code to see how Hibernate deals with sets that have been serialised and reconstructed. That took a couple of hours because, it emerged, Hibernate can be a bitch&quot;.

But we were a very small team (maybe 8 coders) and openly experimenting with XP, rather than taking anything as gospel. Maybe it can get silly in bigger groups.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While I haven&#8217;t done Scrum, in a previous job we used some XP concepts &#8211; especially test-driven design, XP-style planning and pair programming (although they stopped that soon after us interns finished our 6-month stint almost simultaneously and left a coder-vacuum).</p>
<p>One of the best parts of XP to me was that our planning and scheduling was a process which adapted to us as much as we adapted to it. By roughly measuring and learning from the discrepancies between our estimations (ideal hours) and actual time spent on tasks (actual hours) we not only got better at estimating (i.e. guessing), even with quite exploratory code, but perhaps more importantly our weekly Big Visible Charts were a realistic description of how much we were managing to get done.<br />
We didn&#8217;t allow them to be turned against us (to demand or bully us into promising more output or work) &#8211; instead, we used last week&#8217;s chart and ideal hours count (which did get closer to our 40-hour week as time went by) to plan the next week, cutting back on tasks as need be so we&#8217;re only taking on the same expected workload as we accomplished last week. Also, some of our other graphs were able to make it apparent when our schedule slipped due to late requirements changes from client/boss.</p>
<p>So, really it&#8217;s about planning through honesty and openness. If we got shag all work done this week, then it&#8217;d be unrealistic to expect double the output next week. Sure, if we&#8217;re really falling behind it might be brought up at the daily stand-up meetings, but that was never an issue. Pair programming helped keep a decent level of output too &#8211; if one guy is tired or needs to space out, his partner takes the keys for a while and vice versa.<br />
Also, at those meetings I had no trouble saying things like &#8220;we didn&#8217;t get much done yesterday because I got confused by some mystery slowdowns so we played around with the code to see how Hibernate deals with sets that have been serialised and reconstructed. That took a couple of hours because, it emerged, Hibernate can be a bitch&#8221;.</p>
<p>But we were a very small team (maybe 8 coders) and openly experimenting with XP, rather than taking anything as gospel. Maybe it can get silly in bigger groups.</p>
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		<title>By: landon</title>
		<link>http://www.dadhacker.com/blog/?p=1037&#038;cpage=1#comment-22051</link>
		<dc:creator>landon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jul 2008 19:20:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dadhacker.com/blog/?p=1037#comment-22051</guid>
		<description>@Bruce: 20 minutes is too long.  Five minutes, tops.

Also, if you truly don&#039;t care what other people on the project are doing, then you should probably find another project to work on.

My algorithm for truly boring, useless meetings is to ignore them.  If they are really, really bad, I&#039;ll just quietly walk out.  Another possibility: Find someone else to go in your stead (that&#039;s what Program Managers are for at Microsoft -- they go to meetings for me.  Seriously.  If they need really technical backing I&#039;ll go).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Bruce: 20 minutes is too long.  Five minutes, tops.</p>
<p>Also, if you truly don&#8217;t care what other people on the project are doing, then you should probably find another project to work on.</p>
<p>My algorithm for truly boring, useless meetings is to ignore them.  If they are really, really bad, I&#8217;ll just quietly walk out.  Another possibility: Find someone else to go in your stead (that&#8217;s what Program Managers are for at Microsoft &#8212; they go to meetings for me.  Seriously.  If they need really technical backing I&#8217;ll go).</p>
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		<title>By: Bruce</title>
		<link>http://www.dadhacker.com/blog/?p=1037&#038;cpage=1#comment-22046</link>
		<dc:creator>Bruce</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jul 2008 17:40:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dadhacker.com/blog/?p=1037#comment-22046</guid>
		<description>I hate scrums. They are the most excruciatingly boring 20 minutes of my day. My company doesn&#039;t know how a scrum is supposed to be run. Everyone just sits around and tells everyone else what they are doing that day. It doesn&#039;t affect my job at all and I could care less what everyone else is doing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I hate scrums. They are the most excruciatingly boring 20 minutes of my day. My company doesn&#8217;t know how a scrum is supposed to be run. Everyone just sits around and tells everyone else what they are doing that day. It doesn&#8217;t affect my job at all and I could care less what everyone else is doing.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Jones</title>
		<link>http://www.dadhacker.com/blog/?p=1037&#038;cpage=1#comment-21664</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Jones</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jul 2008 01:19:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dadhacker.com/blog/?p=1037#comment-21664</guid>
		<description>Doing scrum wrong is ok, and it&#039;s taken into account in the actual scrum framework itself.  The one major underlying foundation of scrum is that it&#039;s ok to make mistakes as long as you learn from them and don&#039;t repeat them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Doing scrum wrong is ok, and it&#8217;s taken into account in the actual scrum framework itself.  The one major underlying foundation of scrum is that it&#8217;s ok to make mistakes as long as you learn from them and don&#8217;t repeat them.</p>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://www.dadhacker.com/blog/?p=1037&#038;cpage=1#comment-21286</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jul 2008 18:58:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dadhacker.com/blog/?p=1037#comment-21286</guid>
		<description>I work for a very small software company here in Bellevue Wa. We are too small to be able to use a tool like that effectively. So currently I&#039;m Scrumless Near Seattle.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I work for a very small software company here in Bellevue Wa. We are too small to be able to use a tool like that effectively. So currently I&#8217;m Scrumless Near Seattle.</p>
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		<title>By: getluky.net &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Some Ado about Scrumjax</title>
		<link>http://www.dadhacker.com/blog/?p=1037&#038;cpage=1#comment-21255</link>
		<dc:creator>getluky.net &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Some Ado about Scrumjax</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jul 2008 07:03:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dadhacker.com/blog/?p=1037#comment-21255</guid>
		<description>[...] I really enjoyed this Dadhacker post. I got confused by all the other comments so far, so I&#8217;m going to ignore them and just mention the point that I think resonates with me. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] I really enjoyed this Dadhacker post. I got confused by all the other comments so far, so I&#8217;m going to ignore them and just mention the point that I think resonates with me. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Bruce</title>
		<link>http://www.dadhacker.com/blog/?p=1037&#038;cpage=1#comment-21227</link>
		<dc:creator>Bruce</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jul 2008 19:01:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dadhacker.com/blog/?p=1037#comment-21227</guid>
		<description>Hey, I&#039;ll admit Scrum has issues as soon as I run into a developer who even admits the possibility that it might be their habits and expectations that are the problem. Never seen that yet in all the rants I&#039;ve read. Funny.

Seriously, Scrum is a process that involves humans. Of course it can fail. That&#039;s not the question. The question is: does it fail less frequently, or earlier, or more visibly than other processes? It sounds as if you&#039;ve already learned that the leaders of your current project value following the plan over adapting to change. That&#039;s valuable information.

I&#039;m not sure why a developer would feel embarrassed about reporting that their estimate of the work has changed. Would you feel embarrassed if you discovered that a task originally estimated as a week was only going to take 1 day? Then why be when the opposite occurs? The improved estimate comes from increased knowledge about the problem AND THAT&#039;S A GOOD THING. If your Scrum Master can&#039;t deal with that, that&#039;s his problem but, be sure, Scrum isn&#039;t telling him to do that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey, I&#8217;ll admit Scrum has issues as soon as I run into a developer who even admits the possibility that it might be their habits and expectations that are the problem. Never seen that yet in all the rants I&#8217;ve read. Funny.</p>
<p>Seriously, Scrum is a process that involves humans. Of course it can fail. That&#8217;s not the question. The question is: does it fail less frequently, or earlier, or more visibly than other processes? It sounds as if you&#8217;ve already learned that the leaders of your current project value following the plan over adapting to change. That&#8217;s valuable information.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure why a developer would feel embarrassed about reporting that their estimate of the work has changed. Would you feel embarrassed if you discovered that a task originally estimated as a week was only going to take 1 day? Then why be when the opposite occurs? The improved estimate comes from increased knowledge about the problem AND THAT&#8217;S A GOOD THING. If your Scrum Master can&#8217;t deal with that, that&#8217;s his problem but, be sure, Scrum isn&#8217;t telling him to do that.</p>
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